If You’re a Dad, Go to Therapy! with Brendan Dabkowski

Brendan: 00:00:45

The first Bills game I went to, my uncle had won, like, season tickets through the Buffalo News. The story he always tells is like, and you brought a book to the game? Like you were reading a book at the game. I'm like, yep, that sounds like me.

That's exactly the kind of person I am now. Bills fan, but...

Emily: 00:01:03

go Bills, go books!

Brendan: 00:01:05

Yeah.

Emily: 00:01:06

Hello and welcome to It's A Lot, a podcast about things that are a lot. On this show, we have honest conversations about the highs and lows of social media, parenthood, and more.

When it comes to complex topics, online discourse can lack nuance and empathy. That's why we're leaning into deep conversations, making space for conflicting, messy feelings, and keeping it real about how we feel.

We could all use a little more of that sometimes. I'm your host, Emily Hessney Lynch, and today I'm excited to be chatting with Brendan Dabkowski.

Brendan is a freelance writer and editor, adjunct professor at Nazareth University, and a father of two based in Rochester. He's a former longtime Chicago resident, and he'll talk your ear off about Rust Belt cities if you let him. He's a fairly lenient editor, but please don't use the word "leverage" as a verb in his presence. If you enjoy our conversation, you can follow Brendan on Instagram at @causticacrostic. Brendan, welcome to the show.

Brendan: 00:01:59

Thank you for having me, Emily.

Emily: 00:02:00

I really got to know, what's your beef with leverage?

Brendan: 00:02:04

You know, there was a point where I was working for a giant corporation in enterprise communications, and some of the younger writers just kept overusing that word. So it was like, just to me, like, you know, doesn't strike me as a verb. I kind of come from the journalism world, and it was just kind of overused.

It was like, "let's circle back" kind of a thing, like corporate jargon. So feel free to use it. Whatever. It's just a pet peeve I had to throw in there.

Emily: 00:02:35

No, that's too funny. I relate to that. Those corporate buzzwords are the worst. So diving right into parenthood, I want to hear a little bit about your kids. I know you have two, and we've of course, talked about them off mic, but how old are they? What are they into?

Brendan: 00:02:51

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to talk about my kids in some kind of formal situation. Yeah. So I'm not going to use their names, but my older one is seven and he is going into second grade.

We live in the city of Rochester, so city of Rochester schools. And my younger one is my daughter. She is four. And they're both somewhat... I was kind of thinking about how to explain them in terms of what I, what my impression of your podcast is about. And I kept coming up with like, what's the word? I'm getting to the age where I'm like forgetting words.

And I kept using "neurodegenerative" and I'm like, that's not right. But, you know, not neurotypical. Both of them are. So it's. They're very challenging kids. They're very, very smart kids. But they are more than a handful, I suppose.

Emily: 00:03:56

Do they have any fun hobbies or interests right now at that age?

Brendan: 00:03:59

I moved to Rochester in March: 2020

So it was really cool to like sort of, you know, see him pick that up really quickly and to sort of translate the skill to see his mind and his body work together.

Like, the most interesting conversations I find that I have with him are when we're on a bike ride where he's just like, everything's sort of clicking. Like the way he's wired, he needs to be like, moving to, you know, make his mind like function in the way that it needs to. So it's really cool.

I mean, he's really like imaginative on it. And I sometimes question, like, the length of our bike rides are pretty long for like a little guy.

And we've been doing it since he's three and they just get longer.

And it's just, it's cool to see him, you know, get into exploring abandoned buildings is a thing with him and just going farther and like sort of seeing kind of how much he can get away with how far he can push me. But it really is like awesome. It's like, you know, we bond on these long bike rides. So that's him.

I mean, he has many other hobbies, but they're more screen based hobbies usually. My daughter, she's four and she is very much into many screen based things. I wish she was more into reading, but she's. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know what her thing is yet, if she has a thing. She's also learned to ride her bike pretty early, which is pretty nice about our neighborhood. Like, there's a lot of little kids in the neighborhood.

And I wanted, like, I wanted to highlight, like, just how cool like, kids are in the sense that like, this kid down the street, like, sort of showed her a move, right, that I never would have thought of because I am no longer a kid. And it was just like, that was the thing that like, made everything click with her with biking. And I was like, that's. That's great perspective.

Like, I can help you as much as, you know, I can as an adult. But, like, I don't have the sort of like, framework of being four or five or six, like kids do.

Emily: 00:06:34

That's awesome. It's always cool to see them, like, hang out with bigger kids and learn from them just by watching. And it's really neat.

with the screen stuff you've been mentioning. Is there like, some shame feeling going on there? Like, you don't sound thrilled about it. I know we all have a lot of pressures about screens and stuff.

Brendan: 00:06:51

I feel like I'm a bit complicit in it as well. My wife, who I must say is like, much smarter than me and, you know, does everything for our kids. Like, we do have a little difference of opinion about screentime and what I would like them to be watching and doing. I've talked to a lot of like, other parents lately. It seems like, where, like, I haven't brought it up where it's just like, oh, you know, my parent friends, like a lot of them are have kids that are older.

It's just like they're teenagers and it's like, "oh, yeah, we, you know, we waited till so and so was a teenager to, you know, finally like, cave to the iPhone. But they were like, you know, pushing for years." And so it's interesting to see, I don't know, like, people just bring that up and I'm like, I don't, I don't know what we're gonna do.

But yeah, I have, I would like to say, like, it'd be great to go back to a world like, where we all had dumb phones or like, not even like, phones, but it's impossible to, to do that. And I kind of go back and forth on it. Like, I do find that I'm doomscrolling a lot. I do think of your logo for this podcast a little bit.

Just seems not inevitable. But I would say, like, I don't feel the best when I'm obviously, you know, doomscrolling is like, the connotations of that word are what they are.

So I would like my kids to unplug a little bit, but that also sort of requires, like, giving them an activity, like giving them, you know, something to do or having to be with them.

And I think, like, a lot of my mindset, like, as a freelancer is just like, oh, I got to be thinking about this work thing, so I might be on my computer. And then that's like modeling, you know, behavior that, like, everybody's in front of a screen at all times, and we kind of are at this point.

So I go back and forth. It shouldn't be as complicated as it is, but we. Yeah, I don't know. I don't. I don't know how to end that.

Emily: 00:08:52

Yeah, I'm on my phone a lot, too, in the same freelancer boat, especially working in social media. And I'm like, "oh, I'll just put up this post for a client real quick, or I'm going to answer this email real quick." And then I feel bad being on my phone around him and modeling it, like you said.

Brendan: 00:09:04

Yeah.

Emily: 00:09:05

But also part of me wonders, like, I listen to Taylor Lorenz's podcasts as well, and she's like a technology reporter, and she really takes the stance that it's a lot of moral panic about phones and screen time and stuff like that, and that it's just an older generation worrying too much about kids these days. But at the same time, I know there are, like, developmental impacts and it's not great to be on screen so much.

So I feel like there's such a weird, hard tension to navigate with screentime for kids.

Brendan: 00:09:31

And I think, like, on that note, it's like, I've worked a little bit in advertising, and I have friends that work in advertising, and when you sort of hear like, oh, you know, the creators of these technologies will never allow their kids to be on them. I talk to people like that, and that's actually how they feel. Whether they're able to prevent their kids from being on them is another thing.

And, like, what sort of, what does that, like, what does that create in terms of, like, I don't get into arguments with my friends about this, but it's just like, "oh, I would never. I would...we would never give him a tablet, like, at that age."

And I'm like, "well, your kid's not that age yet, and there's going to be pressures that you can't fight, you can't control everything." So it's just a weird thing. And it's like we all have to sort of kind of reckon with where we're at with it.

I guess it's cool that we're talking about it because it's like, my opinions change. I'm a guy from the 90s. I am a Gen X person, and I, you know, sort of reference that a lot.

I came from the world of zines, and I always remember this zine. It was named My Opinions Change Over Time. And it was like, it's kind of silly and it's even sillier to think about it now, but it's like this print.

his print product from, like,: 1995

Emily: 00:10:51

I don't, I don't think it's a silly name because I feel like a lot of people don't change their opinions enough! Like, when we get new information, we should learn and grow. And the internet makes us so much more entrenched in our current opinion sometimes that it's hard to actually change your mind. So it's a good thing.

Speaking of challenging, you had your second child during COVID so I want to hear about what that was like, because I imagine it was pretty hard. And you were pretty new to Rochester at the time. So what was the experience like for you guys?

Brendan: 00:11:20

idn't. We moved here in March: 2020

But I do remember, you know, sort of having the fear. Just going into a hospital at that point seemed like, so chaotic. And I remember calling a friend who was like a, like a nurse practitioner. No, he was a physician's assistant. to ask him about, like, you know, what do I need to know? Like, what do we need to do for, like, the actual, like, going to the hospital? Like, what's it going to be like?

And he was, you know, he was pretty reassuring about that. But this is to me, not to my wife. And, you know, I felt like I had to obviously be as reassuring as possible to my wife.

I don't remember it being like, the pregnancy itself I don't remember it being, like, too bad, but you could talk to my wife, and, you know, I'm sure it might be a little bit different in her opinion, as far as, like, everything. With our first child, who was born in Chicago, we got to go to, like, we had a doula. We got to, you know, go to all sorts of classes and stuff.

I got to go to the doctor's appointments. And then with this, it was just like, I literally couldn't go to any of the doctor's appointments. Like, for one thing, I had to be watching our other kid. So I felt a little weird about that, I guess, like, at first. But then it just sort of became like, oh, this is the new normal kind of a thing.

And then in a way, it gave us, like, both. Like, during the COVID time, it was just like, we were both very hopeful. Cause it was like, "oh, my God, like, this is cool. We're gonna have a new kid." So, yeah, it gave us, like, a lot of hope.

a great kid that was born in: 2021

Emily: 00:13:54

So what was it like when you were transitioning from one to two kids? Was it, like, a big shock after you brought your daughter home, or did it go somewhat smoothly?

Brendan: 00:14:03

Didn't go that smoothly, no. To the point where, you know, I think we, we had a nanny. We interviewed several nannies to take care of her, at least for, you know, a couple hours a day. And that was. That was a weird time. Weirder than, like, the COVID time, because it was, you know, we were trying to figure out how to take care of two, two kids and figure out the childcare situation.

And on top of it, like, I think we pulled our kid out of childcare because of the, like, the levels of COVID were going back up. So then we had to figure out, like, how to, you know, have two kids at home and work.

So our nanny ended up quitting, and, like, it was like, a day where we both had, like, something big to do. And I was looking out the window, I was holding my daughter, and I was just like, "what's happening?" Like, she's not coming. And it just never showed up. Like, completely ghosted us, blocked our numbers.

Emily: 00:15:01

Wow, that's awful.

Brendan: 00:15:02

And then you think, you know, okay, this is a person that was taking care of my kids, like, that they would do that to us and her, you know, it's just that was.

Emily: 00:15:12

Childcare's hard enough now without a pandemic going on! So I can't even imagine what that era was like.

Brendan: 00:15:17

I mean, on top of that, I just, I don't know, I feel somewhat guilty about like almost every aspect of childcare.

Like every time I drop my daughter off, I'm like, "oh, I should be interacting with like the teacher, you know, the teachers more." the caretakers, like, they should be getting paid more obviously. Like, it's just the thing that I feel really sort of gross about. And you know, I mean, I think everybody, like, it's the system, right?

You know, knowing how well she is taken care of, it's just like people should be getting paid more for this. Like, and to go in a different sort of, I guess the same direction, like because of childcare and because of me thinking about that.

ing my full time job in April: 2022

And then we, you know, we did end up having like a person who was able to, to watch her, you know, a couple days a week for a couple hours, that kind of thing. In that sense, it was really cool. So, like, I got to, you know, spend a lot of time with her during her sort of that, that stage of development which, you know, you never get back. So I was able, very lucky to be able to do that, I guess.

Emily: 00:16:34

that is really special. I'm curious since you're the first dad to come on this show, like, how is being a dad different from being a mom? Obviously you've never been a mom, I've never been a dad. But like share your dad-specific perspective.

Brendan: 00:16:49

Well, I have to be careful here. But like, I, you know, I believe, at least in my experience, from what I've seen and most of you know, our family and friends experiences, moms tend to do more by default. And I mean, so that's another thing where I, you know, with the childcare thing, it's just like I feel a lot of guilt around that.

Sure, it was cool that I was able to, you know, spend time with my daughter while my wife went to work. But it's like, you know, it's not like we both get like universal, what is it, basic income to like spend time with her.

It's just like a thing where you have to sort of, you know, keep negotiating it, as you probably know. So. Yeah, I don't, I don't know how it's different. But I feel like it's a lot different for a mom and a dad, at least traditionally.

Just by default, my wife has just, you know, has to do so much more work and like, has so much more input into the kids lives, I guess. Keeps track of the doctor's appointments, keeps track of like just sort of everything they need to do. And part of that, you know, I would say like, okay, I'm not, I'm not like super organized, but I think part of it, like, you know, is...inherent is not the right word.

But part of it is just like I feel like, you know, women or, you know, mothers or caregivers are just sort of wired that way more, which I don't know, that could not, you know, I mean there, there's like a few like single dads I know, but it's just so tough.

Like, I mean, I want to say that, you know, the way I approach it is like, "oh, like I, I would be able to do all the things that my wife does," but there's just no conceivable way like that that, you know, would have ever happened.

Emily: 00:18:51

Do you feel like some of that is societal? Like the school or the doctor's office is going to the mom first or is it just like how things have happened to fall into place in your relationship?

Brendan: 00:19:01

It could be that. Yeah, it could be that for sure.

Emily: 00:19:03

Because I always hear like dads that are mad that they don't have their name on the school or daycare emails or even though the dad is the primary contact, they call the mom first anyways and stuff like that, that is frustrating to some dads.

Brendan: 00:19:14

Oh, interesting. Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't say, you know, I get the call, I'm on the emails. you know, my wife just like does so much more and there is a sense of guilt there.

Emily: 00:19:28

I wasn't expecting you to say that because my impression is like, since you're a freelancer, you have more flexibility and you are doing more with your kids than some other dads. I don't know how much your wife is doing versus you, but I feel like you're a very involved dad from what I've seen.

Brendan: 00:19:42

Yeah, I mean, I guess that's a good point. Like, it comes in waves. It's like, you know, at some points, like I have, you know, like last night I was like, I have a client where it was something that had to be done. Like that night I was just like, "okay, I gotta stay up late and do this."

At certain points when there's like a lull in my work, you know, obviously, like, it's cool to be able to, like, pick my kids up from school, like, take the older one to his music lesson. But, yeah, I guess, like, lately I've just felt like it's been tough to do that and that I'm sort of, you know, asking my wife to do more.

And then, you know, you remember, like. Well, it's not like, like, I do tend to see a lot of music. I do tend to go out at night. But, like, a lot of the things that, you know, where I feel sort of, like, guilty that I'm away from them is like, oh, I'm actually doing work to, you know, make money to support them and us. But there's, there's some guilt around that, too, I guess.

Emily: 00:20:41

I end up feeling the same way a lot with doing work stuff or doing this podcast even. And I'm like, "oh, I'm not home putting my child to bed," but I'm doing a podcast about parenthood that is really enjoyable for me and that I...maybe will make money off of one day, but probably not. Who knows?!

Brendan: 00:20:57

You never know.

Emily: 00:20:58

But the guilt is so pervasive. I feel like for parents of both, any gender, it seems.

Brendan: 00:21:01

I was talking to another parent over a couple nights ago, so I guess it was a weekend. That's another thing with parenting. It's like, time is much different as you know.

Emily: 00:21:13

It's all made up.

Brendan: 00:21:15

It was actually a friend I hadn't seen in about 20 years, and we were out at Darien Lake seeing some music from the 90s, and his kids are a lot older. And he was just telling me about how his daughter is 12, and he's like. And we still read together. And I'm like, "oh, that's awesome."

And I was kind of, like, tearing up, and he's just like, "yeah, I really cherish that time, you know, because, like, is this going to be the last book we ever read together?" And I thought about that in terms of, like, you know, my kids. I'm like, the older one, won't even let me read anymore. He's more attuned to his mom. Unless, you know, it's just me and him at night. And then obviously, things change and quickly sometimes, but. Yeah.

And then my daughter, like, I usually put her to bed, she doesn't want to read anymore. And I'm like, you know, she will again, but usually she's just so, like. I don't know. I don't know if it's a summer thing, but she's just so tired she's like, "turn the light out!" Like, okay. There's this, like, sort of pull where it's like, "I should be like, to be a better dad, I should keep the light on. Make her read, like, four books or something." That doesn't seem practical. But then to hear my friend describe it in this way, or just like, "it could be the last book we ever read." I'm like, that really hit me.

Emily: 00:22:36

Yeah. There's so many shoulds in parenthood, though. It's hard. And my kid is doing the same thing, passing out so quick at night. And I'm like, we haven't read in a while and of course we'll read again. And it's all just different eras of their childhood. But I totally get that too.

The heartstrings of, like, the last time. we had our last bottle at some point, and I didn't know it was the last bottle. Like, we're doing all cups now.

Brendan: 00:22:55

I think about that too. Yeah.

Emily: 00:22:57

Yeah. Or like, the last time you pick them up and you never know. It's, it's a little, it's a bit much sometimes.

Brendan: 00:23:03

Yeah. That kind of stuff. It's like, well, you know, people recreating the photos of, like, them when they were kids.

Emily: 00:23:10

Yeah.

Brendan: 00:23:10

It's not the last time. Yeah, Just, you know, the time you don't break your back.

Emily: 00:23:14

Right. Well, let's take a quick break and then we'll, we'll get back into it shortly.

Brendan: 00:23:18

Sounds great.

Emily: 00:24:25

So, Brendan, I want to start with, like, a doozy of a question for you in the second half here. Some people say that they're a different person after having kids or like a better version of themselves. I'm curious if that's true for you. What do you think?

Brendan: 00:24:38

Hmm. You know, I feel like I would have wanted it to be true, and maybe I was trying for it to be true for a while. It's tough because I have a lot of friends who obviously do not have children, and I'm not quite sure. So, you know, I would say, like, I didn't have, like, you know, a rough and tumble, like, crazy rock and roll lifestyle before having kids.

And I don't know really. And so in terms of that, like, I guess, like, just, you know, thinking about, like, lifestyle. No, but as a person, like, you know, what, what defines, like, me as a person? Like, did something, like, open up? Did other things close down? I'm sure.

Yeah, I'm sure something shifted and it's hard to put in, I guess, to put into words exactly what that is, but, like, you definitely, in some way, you know, see the world a little bit differently.

I do remember, like, may sound a little cheesy, but I remember, like, being on the L in Chicago, like, shortly after my son was born, and just sort of, like, seeing, like, an unhoused person, like, moving around and, like, just seeing, like, I guess, people, you know, moving to the side, like, trying to avoid them.

And I'm not saying, like, you know, oh, I'm, you know, I'm a better person now or anything, but, like, I just sort of had the thought where it was like, oh, this kid. "This person was a baby once." Like, And I got sort of emotional about it, and it's just like. So in that way, it's just like. I don't know.

I'd like to say I'm less judgy in some fashions, but, like, also, parenting makes me more, more judgy in other sort of situations. It's a fine line.

Emily: 00:26:36

I have read that it can increase your empathy because it makes you be more attuned to your child. And it sounds like that's what was coming up in the situation with the unhoused person.

Brendan: 00:26:45

I think so, yeah. I mean, it really, you know, it's really sort of affected me in the moment, but also just because I was a new parent and my, I was feeling that. Right. Which I guess is good for the world, but it's not like you stay in that state all the time.

But it's interesting that you mentioned empathy because, like, I do feel like maybe in the long run, like, I'm definitely more empathetic toward all people, I hope. And so maybe, you know, that moment was just sort of, like, the example. But it definitely, like, I guess, opens, opens you up in a way where, like, as a teacher, it's just like, I try to see, you know, I try to see my kids. I try to see what they're going through and empathize and, like, you know, just the fact that I think of them as kids, I shouldn't call them that.

I think, like, as something changed, like, as, you know, a new parent that just sort of, like, was, you know, I'm not gonna say it wasn't there in the first place, but it just sort of, like, opened it up, like, took it in a new. A different sort of trajectory, but it's, it was something that was there first.

Emily: 00:27:53

That makes sense.

Brendan: 00:27:54

Yeah.

Emily: 00:27:54

Yeah, we talked a lot about guilt and feeling bad in the first half, but I want to hear about moments where, like, you feel like your kids are bringing out the best in you. Are there times where you feel like the really good parts of you come out when you're parenting?

Brendan: 00:28:07

Hmm, let me think about that. I think, like, maybe it's just, you know, not so much with my own kids, but like, I can sort of see what other, like other kids, you know, their friends or like people in the neighborhood, like, I could just sort of like register what their needs are. And I'm like, "oh, okay. Like, you know, sure, I can help you, like, with this thing."

And I just feel more comfortable doing that, I guess, as a parent, because I'm like, I just, like, I have two little kids. Like, obviously, like, I know, you know, I know what to do in this situation. Like when somebody, say, falls down in front of our house, it's like a.

Emily: 00:28:46

Whole new skill set you get in parenting.

Brendan: 00:28:47

Yeah. Yeah. Again, it's not to say that like a person who's not a parent, obviously, you know, could still do some of that stuff, but I feel like more, more comfortable, I guess, like just sort of like being around other kids and being able to, you know, like, oh, I'm a dad. Like, there was a time when a friend mentioned, like, you know, "you're just going to be like, 'so and so's' dad.' Like, that's what people are going to remember you as." Like, some people. And I'm like, that's, that's true. Like, that's a weird thing to think about.

Or it was a weird thing to think about, like, at that time. And I'm kind of like leaning into that more. I'm like, that's fine. Like, I don't need, you know, any sort of like, grand, you know, send off, like, I'm his dad. I'm her dad.

Emily: 00:29:34

Yeah. A neighborhood kid was saying to Tim the other day, like, "oh, his dad, his dad," like, and not referring to him as Tim. And we are so new at this. We hadn't experienced that before, but I was like, oh, that's so cute that he's calling you by kid's dad name. I don't know, it's just really sweet.

I'm curious, when you're on social media, you talked about doomscrolling earlier. What kind of fatherhood or parenthood content do you see in your feed?

Brendan: 00:29:57

I don't think I see a lot of like, dad, you know, specific content, parenthood content. You know, my wife will send me things that she sees on Instagram. I don't really, like, go beyond Instagram because I'm a Gen X person, but I don't know I mean, a lot of it is like. A lot of it is like, you know, our kids are a bit neurodivergent. So a lot of it is sort of around that I see. And I don't know how, you know, what is.

I guess the way I've interacted with stuff, like that's why I see it. But yeah, social media and like parenthood. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know how to answer this, Emily. Sorry.

Emily: 00:30:41

I feel like so much stuff gets pushed to moms on social media and I was curious if dads get it as much. Cause I don't think Tim sees as much as I do and I'm like, "oh, this informative thing I saw or this is the kind of cup we should use for him."

And all the, like every stage of the journey I've had it like spoon fed to me from the algorithm and he's getting like nothing like, except for the memes I send him. So maybe it's similar with you guys.

Brendan: 00:31:06

That's probably a good point. I don't know. I remember trying to join some like dad, dads meet up for beer group, you know, like kind of a thing, you know, when we still lived in Chicago and it was like, oh yeah, I'm sure we would have like dished about like our terrible struggles as dads over like beer or whatever, but I don't think it's the same. I think you're right about that. Like you're probably getting more of that content served up to you.

Emily: 00:31:30

And I'm sure it's the capitalism of it all too, that the women are the ones buying the things like, oh, this is the cup you need for your toddler. This is the whatever, you know, like I'm buying a ton of stuff for him on TikTok shop that we probably don't need. But it was sold to me through all these videos.

Brendan: 00:31:43

Yeah, I mean, I occasionally, I mean during the pandemic, it was just. I'm sure we bought all kinds of stuff that was sort of push to us if you were in a certain class and demographic.

Kristin mostly buys all of that stuff. I do remember buying cups somewhat recently, but that could have been a year ago. But yeah, all this stuff is just like, it's more, I feel, targeted to women, moms.

Emily: 00:32:08

You are mentioning the neurodegenerative or neurodivergentness of your children. I would love to hear a little bit more about that journey. Like, how did you figure it out? What were some early signs of it all? That kind of stuff.

Brendan: 00:32:21

I don't want to go, like, too deep into, you know, conspiracy theory kind of stuff. But, you know, when we moved here, my son, you know, got Lyme disease within the first year, right?

And I feel like he's had sort of like, just strange autoimmune things happening since then. And I'm only, like, thinking about since then as, like, I can. This is the story. Like, this is when I knew a thing happened. So maybe, you know, I'm relating it back to that. But he recently got Lyme disease again, which you can unfortunately do because there's, I guess, two different kinds of antibodies and that showed that he had the. The recent infection one. And, you know, it was kind of scary. Like, he had headaches for, like, almost two weeks and they weren't going away, and we had to take them to the er So I don't know. I don't like to the, you know, neurodivergent portion of that. Like, he's a very sensitive kid, which I think is a good thing in many ways.

I don't know why I started talking. The Lyme disease is fresh in my mind. But anyways.

Emily: 00:33:27

I was getting nervous you were going to say the Lyme disease caused the neurodivergence or something.

Brendan: 00:33:31

No! So he, like, he is fairly like, you know, ADHD and, like, has been diagnosed with ADHD and, you know, is taking medication. But I guess sort of the way that we started to see this was just like, meltdowns in many different situations. And he didn't have a great experience in kindergarten. He has gotten much better.

He's had much, you know, better support since we've gotten the diagnosis, and he's doing much, much better now. But, yeah, I think the thing that's sad is that I don't know a lot of, a lot of, not a lot of parents, but I can just sort of see, like, certain parents avoid him or us in certain ways where it's just like, oh, you know, he's a little too, like, like, he's not violent in any way, not more than, like, a normal kid, but, like, he's just very exuberant and can sort of explode and have a meltdown. And I could understand why parents would want to shy away from that and keep their kids away from it at certain points.

But there's just been, I don't know, situations with parents where I'm like, "oh, like, why would you. Like, he knows everybody. Like, those are all his friends. Why would you not invite him to the birthday?"

Emily: 00:34:52

That's so sad. because he has big feelings?!

Brendan: 00:34:55

Yeah. But, you know, he doesn't even register it. He doesn't even clock it.

Emily: 00:35:00

That's good, at least.

Brendan: 00:35:01

At this point. But, like, we do, and we're like, what are we doing wrong? You know, so that's a pretty sad thing for both Kristen and me to sort of see that sometimes. And then just, you know, we still have to parent. We still have to be positive mostly. But I'm trying to think. What was your original question?

Emily: 00:35:20

Just the journey of figuring out the neurodivergent diagnosis and all that.

Brendan: 00:35:24

Yeah.

Emily: 00:35:25

And has that come up with your daughter so far? I know she's younger.

Brendan: 00:35:28

She has a lot of. Yeah. I mean, we haven't really, like, explored it in depth, but she, you know, she has an IEP in preschool, and it's basically just she does something where, you know, she's very talkative, she's very, very smart if she knows you.

But in, like, crowded, you know, situations, like classroom situations, like, she will just completely, you know, shut down and to the point where, like, she won't tell you, like, "oh, I skinned my knee. Like, I'm in pain. I need to go to the bathroom." She's afraid to say anything or unable to say anything. So that's something. We haven't, like, quite figured out what it is. But, you know, the word 'situational mutism' is a thing which is like, sort of, you know, an autism spectrum thing.

And she's also, you know, she'll eat only certain foods. There's a picture they sent us from daycare a couple days ago where everybody was, like, had a big tray of food and had, like, two pieces of cheese.

Anyway, that's her sort of challenge at this point. And the way that it is sort of put back on her by other people, I think, as a parent is interesting to see. It's just like, "oh, you're so shy." So she repeats that back to us sometimes where she's just like, "mama, I'm so shy." I'm like, okay, maybe you're not. Maybe that's just how you're wired. And so, yeah, that's what we're trying to do.

Emily: 00:37:03

That is interesting. It sounds like you're very attuned to both of their struggles and trying to help them find resources and, like, navigate it and figure it all out, as opposed to, like, some generations who just ignored any of those issues with their kids, and were like, "oh, you're fine, suck it up." You know?

Brendan: 00:37:17

Right. Yeah. And that's. I mean, that's another thing, like, it's interesting to see that in my kids and then sort of like, like generations in the past or like, you know, people in my life and family. It's like, "oh, that's probably what was going on." And, like, they did not get the help that they needed or the support that they needed.

So we, yeah, we try to be, try to read all the literature, try to stay up on things and be really supportive, but it's. It's challenging. I mean, even, you know, with like, all the. Yeah, I'll just say it. The academic bozos in my neighborhood, you'd think they'd be a little bit more accepting, I think, of our kids.

Emily: 00:37:54

That's frustrating. Tim and I both got diagnosed with ADHD in our 30s, so I'm curious. I assume our child is gonna have it as well. Like, it would be shocking if he didn't.

So I'm curious what signs might come up and what a different childhood he'll have if we are able to get resources or medication or whatever he might need or just handle it differently. So.

Brendan: 00:38:14

Well, I think it's good that, you know, you'll be attuned to that, like, early on because of your own sort of situations.

Emily: 00:38:21

And he definitely has big feelings, but he's also a toddler, so I think it's expected at this stage no matter what. So you were talking about staying positive even when things are hard.

On a much broader level, things are pretty hard with the rise of fascism we're all living through. So what does that feel like as a parent? Like, how are you getting through that?

Brendan: 00:38:42

That's a great question. You know, I feel like we keep a lot of it, like, under wraps, but, like, things sort of, you know, come out.

I was at a conference, like, earlier in the year, I got to see one of my college friends, kids in a different. In Salt Lake City, awesome city.

And they were about the same ages as my kids, and they were just, like, just going off, like, totally politically informed, like, obviously repeating their father's opinion, which I agreed with. I'm an anti-fascist. I gotta put that out there. I was just like, oh, should I, you know, should we be more directly talking to our kids about this?

And I don't know. I mean, I don't, like. Like, I don't want, you know, them to be watching something more on one of their screens about this stuff. We try. Yeah, we try to stay positive. I feel like, you know, we are, to a degree, like, everybody's in some sort of bubble to, to a point. Like, some people obviously like, we have a lot of privilege, and, you know, we haven't had to, you know, like, as white parents in America, we haven't had to really, like, address a lot of that yet. But, you know, you could say, like, "oh, we're allowing them to be kids as long as possible." I don't know.

But it's interesting to see, like, what my son has picked up on and, like, just. I don't know, he's made some, like. Like, he did, you know, attend a protest. It was the. The big day of protests. I can't remember what the name of it was.

Emily: 00:40:17

No King's Day, I think.

Brendan: 00:40:19

Was it? I think it was before that, actually.

Emily: 00:40:21

Hands Off, I think?

Brendan: 00:40:22

Yes. So he, you know, he had. He made a sign that said, "hands off my IEP!" because he had an IEP at that point. And so, yeah, he's definitely gotten some of the buzz. And when he asks me, like, I feel like I have to be honest about it.

And he has asked me about certain things, and I'm just like, "this is why we don't like that person. He's taking away all of these other people's rights." And, you know, it's tough. It's not that. I don't know. It's not as tough for us as it is for other people.

Emily: 00:40:54

And a friend of mine was just telling me about how she talked to her kid about Paw Patrol and why they didn't want him to be into Paw Patrol. And, like, "some of your friends who have a different skin color than you wouldn't have good experiences with the police. And that's why we don't like Paw Patrol."

Brendan: 00:41:09

Yeah. Kristin is, that's her perspective as well.

Emily: 00:41:12

Copaganda!

Brendan: 00:41:14

Copagana! Yeah. So I don't know, you know, as a person who's, like, pretty politically informed and, like, lets my opinions be known about these things, when my, you know, my friend, when I heard his kids talking, I was just like, oh, my gosh. They're so, like, just so articulate about this. I was like, should. Should we, you know, be talking to our kids more? I don't feel like we should. I don't know. My younger kid, my daughter, she has no. No idea. She's four. So.

Emily: 00:41:44

Four is so young. You mentioned earlier talking. You were talking about your students. So I'm curious, like, how being a dad affects how you show up in the classroom. You were referring to them as kids and stuff. So do you think it has some kind of impact there?

Brendan: 00:41:57

I'm now remembering my first day teaching last semester. I teach at Nazareth University, with Emily, with you. I had to bring my, my son to class because we did not have, you know, child care. Why? I can't remember the exact situation. So, you know, he would have seen what I was saying to my students, the kids. And I can't remember what that was. It was the first, you know, the first day of class. So it was not anything too abrasive.

But guess, like, I tend to talk about my kids, my real kids, my biological children to my students a lot because it's just like, well, this is. This thing just happened, like, half an hour ago. I gotta tell you, it seems funny to me. Like, maybe it makes me more relatable.

I don't know, goes over, like, how it goes over that day, depending on people's moods. But I have. You know, I have had to cancel classes a couple times where it's just like, "oh, we don't have childcare again. I can't." Like, I could bring them both. Both to class, but it doesn't seem like the best. The best setup. I do tend to talk about my kids, my biological children to my students. I feel like I couldn't do that any other way. Like, I just, I kind of have to.

Emily: 00:43:18

That's interesting, because I, like, don't mention my kid that much at all. I show pictures on, like, the first day of class, and maybe, like, halfway through the semester, I'm like, "here's what he's up to. Look how cute he is!" And that's about it.

Brendan: 00:43:29

I don't know. I think a lot of the stuff that I talk about, because it's. I just sort of, like, try to zoom out and, like, talk about, like, ideologies and stuff. And it's just like, okay, so, like, "what my kid did in this situation relates to, like, what I want you to write about because the state is doing, like, taking your rights away, you know, in some way." So it's worked out. But it's also, you know, is that, like, a function of, like, me being who I am or just me being, like, unorganized?

I'm like, oh, I gotta tell. Like, I don't have anything prepared. I'm gonna tell you a story. But even if I did, I feel like I would have to talk about them.

Emily: 00:44:09

It sounds like it brings it to life more for me. I'm like, "here's how a brand made a funny TikTok." So there's not really a good way to tie my kid into it.

Or I'm, like, showing them parenting Instagrams or something. And they don't care at all. Like, "look at this parenting meme!" They're like, "what?"

Brendan: 00:44:24

interesting. I mean, like, I think back to, I don't know, like, I can't remember if, like, teachers that I had talked about their kids or brought their kids. They probably did at some point. But it might be. Might be a no no for like, Gen Z. Cause those are the students. But I can't not do it. It's just like, this is what, this is part of my life and, you know, gotta talk about what's, you know, happening in your life.

Emily: 00:44:50

We talked about the neurodivergent journey with your kids. But I'm curious about your own mental health as it pertains to parenthood. How is becoming a parent, like, affected your own mental health?

Brendan: 00:45:01

on SSRIs like in sometime in: 2021

And I could definitely, like, feel it after a month. It was just like, okay then, you know, talking to my doctor and therapist, it's just like, that's exactly what that's supposed to do.

Like, I'm not like, you know, super depressed, but it definitely has helped. And yes, I go to therapy too, which I don't want to get too into that. But my therapist is great because she sort of has a similar situation, at least with one of her children. So there is a lot that we are able to talk about and a lot of sort of actionable stuff.

Emily: 00:46:30

That's great! That sounds super helpful.

Brendan: 00:46:31

Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, I don't want to out her or anything. So, yeah, I try to take care of my mental health.

Emily: 00:46:40

More dads need to go to therapy.

Brendan: 00:46:42

So, yes, if you're a dad, go to therapy. I think the first I went to therapy, I guess before I became a dad, but, like, definitely all of the feelings like in the first year. I am so glad that I had a therapist during that year because it was just the most intense, you know, not with. Oh, my God, not with my daughter, but with my son as a first time parent.

Emily: 00:47:08

It's a lot.

Brendan: 00:47:08

Yeah, it definitely...name of the podcast! It was a lot and it was very, very helpful.

Emily: 00:47:15

What are some moments on the other side of the spectrum that are a lot in a good way? Like, what are the joyful moments of being a dad?

Brendan: 00:47:22

Hmm. Seeing them get excited about things. Seeing them, like, sort of like accomplish things. Like, as a. I was telling this, actually.

Falls area. It's probably in: 1990

Emily: 00:48:18

I used to bring a book to church and read in the pews as a kid.

Brendan: 00:48:22

So it was like, you know, my uncle's like, college friends are like, they've ribbed him about it. And I'm like, that's exactly the kind of person I am now. Bills fan, but, you know.

Emily: 00:48:30

Go Bills, go books!

Brendan: 00:48:32

Yeah. Bringing a book to the game. And I did have another point, but I don't remember the question.

Emily: 00:48:37

Something about the joy of childhood.

Brendan: 00:48:39

Oh, yeah. Being a parent, like, seeing them be, you know, seeing my older one figure out how to read so early. Cause I don't think I read as early as he did. This is just like super cool. Like, I wish I could get him, you know, off his tablet and he, you know, we'll get into, you know, physical books more or, you know, whatever, however he chooses to consume books.

But yeah, just the fact that he learned to read so early and like, seeing him, like, sound all this stuff out and asking those questions, like, that was just so cool as like a academic, peripheral, like, editor person. Let's see, with. I don't know, she's just very, like, just to see her get excited about things.

We just got a new kitten and she's like, super excited yeah. And she. I can't remember the context, but she used the word "therefore," like as a four year old.

Emily: 00:49:35

That's amazing.

Brendan: 00:49:36

What are we doing to these kids? I don't know.

Emily: 00:49:38

the tablets are working

Brendan: 00:49:41

Maybe...I mean, maybe it was a bluey thing. You got me other things just seeing like, you know what, you know, you never know what they're gonna, what's gonna stick with them.

I guess the older one takes piano lessons at this point and because of, you know, being ADHD, like wired like, it's sort of hard for him to like, we don't make him practice. Right. But his teacher, this lovely guy at the Submarine School of Music, you know, will work with him to write his own songs. And I'm like, "that's amazing!" Like, I wish, you know, super cool. Like, I wish I would have done that when I was that age.

And like, I'll see him sort of practicing his own songs and I guess he writes the lyrics too. And I'm like, amazing. It would be great if he could, you know, copy something else and learn that. But to start out that way, I think is different.

Emily: 00:50:36

Yeah, good for him. It sounds like they've got a lot of fun stuff going on in their lives right now.

Brendan: 00:50:41

For sure. Summer is a fun time, for sure.

Emily: 00:50:43

Do you guys have anything else fun going on this summer you're looking forward to?

Brendan: 00:50:46

To get my daughter to go to sleep the other night, I told her I would take her on one of those sort of like Erie Canal, like, lock cruises, which I don't know if she's interested or not. She's just like, "they serve snacks on it?" like. Yes! so we'll do that. We're going camping somewhere with some other friends from my son's school. So that will be fun.

We bounce back and forth between Buffalo a lot because we have family there mostly just in camp for the summer, which is actually get more work done in the summer because, like the camp is longer than the school, the daycare.

Emily: 00:51:21

Nice! Well, it sounds like you guys got a lot of good fun stuff on deck to look forward to, so enjoy it.

Brendan: 00:51:27

We do, yeah.

Emily: 00:51:28

Thanks for coming on the show, Brendan. I really appreciate you joining me.

Brendan: 00:51:32

Thank you very much, Emily. This was great.

Narrator: 00:51:37

This has been a presentation of the Lunchroom Podcast Network.