Crashing Out After Loss & Letting Yourself Hope Again (with Eboni Jones Stewart)

Eboni: 00:00:45

The internet is dark and full of terrors, but it is also full of support groups and people who get it.

Emily: 00:00:52

Hello and welcome to It's A Lot, a podcast about things that are a lot. On this show, we have honest conversations about the highs and lows of social media, parenthood, and more. When it comes to complex topics, online discourse can lack nuance and empathy. That's why we're leaning into deep conversations, making space for conflicting, messy feelings and keeping it real about how we feel.

We could all use a little more of that sometimes. I'm your host, Emily Hessney Lynch, and today I'm excited to be talking to Eboni Jones Stewart.

Eboni's a librarian at both the Memorial Art Gallery and the Rochester Public Library, as well as an adjunct professor at RIT. She loves art, books, travel, and crafting. She's a bonus mom to three kids and a hedgehog mom to two, and she hopes to have a biological human one day. If you enjoy our conversation today, you can follow ebony on Instagram at misspearljones. I'll link it in the show notes.

I'm so looking forward to our conversation. Welcome to the show, Eboni.

Eboni: 00:01:42

Hi.

Emily: 00:01:43

It's been a while since we've seen each other. I'm curious what life is looking like lately and what's a lot these days?

Eboni: 00:01:50

Everything is a lot. everything! right this second for me, it's the never attainable work-life balance, and that life. Obviously, as we get older, it gets more complex with kids, growing kids, their schedules, our schedules, the dumpster fire that is the world.

There's just so, so much to try and balance. And I think, you know, some proverbial 'they' has said that, you know, you can have it all, just not at one time. And so it's just like, "But I feel like I have nothing!"

Emily: 00:02:30

Relatable.

Eboni: 00:02:31

It's like, I have a handle on nothing! But we just kind of do the best we can and, you know, if the laundry doesn't get done or if, you know, the laundry doesn't get folded, the dishes don't get done, it's just like, well, we have a place to sleep. You know, children are fed, the hedgehogs are fed, we are fed. The car will get an oil change. Eventually the kids will have matching clothes. Maybe one day.

Emily: 00:02:56

Gotta drop some balls. Sometimes it's not possible to juggle all of it. It's so hard. I'm curious about your journey to becoming a bonus mom. So I want to hear about, like, when you and Blake started dating. What was that like? Like, when did you find out that he had kids. Did you know that up front?

Eboni: 00:03:11

So this is pretty funny. I wanted to fact check this with him, and I was like, do you remember? Like, I mean, we've been together about 10 years, and so, you know, it's hard to remember, you know, from, from the annals of Tinder. I was like, you know, what was your profile like? I was like, did you have kids on your profile?

Because, like, I feel like now with, with online dating profiles, like, they're. I mean, good for them. I mean, you know, they're very specific. It says, like, you know, if, it marks if have kids, if you're looking for somebody with kids, if, you know, if you're not. And then, like, there's, like, way more, like, matching that, you know, kind of takes the hassle out of it.

And I'm, you know, very grateful not to be in that, in that dumpster fire anymore. But we figured out that he didn't have it on his profile. In fact, I feel like he had kind of like a typical, like, fuckboy profile and, you know, just had like, a bunch of pictures of him and, you know, like a one. Like a zippy one liner. And I don't even remember, like, actually, like, selecting him.

So for Tinder, at least, you know, 10 years ago, it worked where I think it was like, swipe right for like and swipe left for not. And there were definitely some times where we've played Tinder roulette and we just swiped right on everybody, and it's just like, you know what?

We're just gonna fling stuff at the wall, and we're see what sticks. And so then he messages me, and I was like, who's this guy? Like, I was like, did I pick this? I don't know.

And then we just kind of started hanging out, and, you know, we've just been hanging out ever since. But realistically, we met in November, and then we officially, you know, started dating in the January after. And so then when it came to meeting the kids, I mean, and I was just like, I don't even know when he told me he had kids. I'm sure he mentioned it, like, at some point, but whether it was in November or January or in between, no idea.

When it came to meeting the kids, I officially met the kids in April. We're officially dating for, like, four months. I don't know.

You know, he might have given, like, a little precursor a couple of weeks earlier to be like, hey, you know, this is my nice friend. Like, that kind of thing. And he was, you know, Proper almost. You know, sometimes I wonder if it was, like, too proper.

But he's like, you know, this is Miss Eboni. And I'm just like, am I like, a teacher or the help? Like, I don't. I don't love this, but. But, you know, I was just Miss Eboni.

I was Miss Eboni for about four years. And then, you know, we. We got married. At that point, the kids, or at least the.

The middle one, Maddie, for a couple of years before that, she was drawing pictures of Blake and I in, in wedding gear. Like, I mean, she,

Eboni: 00:05:53

, you know, we get married in: 2020

So then I'm just like, Eboni, you know, no, like, fancy qualifier ahead of that. It's really hard to explain. Cause, I mean, I was just kind of Miss Eboni for, like, a really long time.

And then even after we got married, I remember it was kind of hard. They were just like, Miss. Eboni? They're like, wait, Eboni??? And I was like, now we're. I think we're pretty good with, like, you know, Eboni.

And the littlest one, Sean, he was, oh, probably three or four when we got married, and he was just like, so you're my stepmom? And I was like, yeah, but I was like. I like to say bonus mom.

I don't know if it's just me, and I feel like in my head, stepmom has a negative connotation.

And maybe that's just because I watched too many Disney movies as a child, and the stepmother is always evil with a cat in her lap and forcing the children to do chores, or the evil stepmother that, you know, takes the father away and, you know, they're left nothing but to talk with animated characters. Right? And so I didn't want to have that vibe, so I was just like.

And plus, you know, all of the children have obviously great primary relationships with their mothers. And so I just wanted to be like, well, I guess I'm just like, an extra. Just an extra. Just like a bonus, like a prize at the bottom of the cereal box.

Like an additional, like, additional parent. Which, I mean, I. And I think any parent, you know, or any parent, like, without like, a village or, you know, can attest that, honestly, the more hands, the better. And the kids. Moms, you know, they're both, like, partnered, and Sean's mom is engaged.

And so, again, really just having, like, more people to be supportive, like, for the kids, with the kids, an extra pair of hands, an extra vehicle, like, it's, it's, it's really, really helpful.

Emily: 00:08:00

I love the framing, too, of bonus, as such a positive thing, too, because that archetype is so real. The evil stepmom. I can totally see wanting to distance yourself from that.

You mentioned the two younger ones. Now, was the older one a little slower to warm up to you, or were any of them slow to warm up?

Eboni: 00:08:15

So the middle one, Maddie. I like to call her the mayor. She's, she was, I think, three when I met her. And she stuck her hand out of the car, like, out the car window. She's like, "hi, I'm Maddie." And I was like, "oh, oh, hey." Like. Like, you know, And, I mean, she's pretty much still like that at. At 13. She's got lots of friends. She's involved in, you know, clubs and this and that and, you know, sports, and she's doing all this stuff. Liam, he was a little...he's the oldest. He'll be 15 next month. He was a little apprehensive. You know, he was just like, "hey."

And then we'd be hanging out more, and he would just like, randomly be like, "where's my mom?" And then I was like, "oh, she's at her house." Like, you're gonna see her, like, later today. Like, it's okay.

So for a while there, he was just kind of like, oh, you know, like, when I was around, he'd be like, "oh, I miss my mom. I. Where is my mom?" And I'm like, again, like, you know, he's five. What do you want? Like, I mean, I get it. Like, and it's hard when...or I can imagine that it's hard when you're a young child and, you know, you have your parents at two different homes and what that's like to kind of go back and forth. And I'm sure it's still hard now. You know, the kind of stuff. You know, I feel like the big kids, you know, they, they, like, bring things from, you know, one house to the other because they actually want, like, their things at both houses, and they absolutely should, you know, but I'm sure that's still, like, a pain to have to do.

Emily: 00:09:45

That's amazing that you've seen him through so much life already, though. Like, 5 to 15 is crazy!

Eboni: 00:09:49

Yeah, it really, really is. And again, I am very good friends with the proverbial they. And they also say that the hardest phase of parenting is the one that you're in. And so. Right. Diapers hard, potty training hard. Having to, like, ban Snapchat from a cell phone hard. You know, navigating dating and sports, hard. Like, it's, it's. It's all hard. And so sometimes I'm just like, wow, remember when, like, they just crapped their pants and didn't talk? Like, that was sick. Like.

Emily: 00:10:28

It really does seem like every phase is so hard in different ways. And then like, the older generation is just like, "oh, remember when we had kids and everything was lovely?" And I'm like, "what about the hard parts?! You don't remember how hard this was?"

Eboni: 00:10:39

No. Exactly. Where, you know, and again, with multiple kids, if one's got a lacrosse game here, but then somebody else has a baseball game here, and then somebody's got a chorus recital. And so then again, that's helpful when there's, you know, multiple adults.

The kids have, you know, grandparents on both sides and, like, you know, there's, you know, support so that at least somebody will have a family representative at each thing. But, like, you know, that's still kind of hard to divide and conquer in that way, but grateful that I guess we can.

Emily: 00:11:12

So nice that they have that many caring adults in their lives.

Eboni: 00:11:15

The more the better. And what's funny is I call myself the bonus mom, but Sean's, you know, future stepdad, for the longest time, he didn't know what to call, Daniel is his name. And so he would always just say "my Daniel." And it's the cutest thing. And honestly, I think I'm just going to keep doing it, but, like, you know, you know, "how's your Daniel? What does your Daniel want?" You know, like, Sean's Daniel loves my mother-in-law's recipe for molasses cookies. So whenever we bake cookies, it's like, "yeah, make sure you take these to your Daniel." And that's like, honestly, like, one of the, like, the best bonus adult names. Just, you know, the signifier my. And then, you know, the person's name.

Emily: 00:12:01

That's too cute. I love that. Super cute. I'm curious to hear more about what this chapter of parenthood is looking like. Like, what are the kids into? You mentioned there's a ton of stuff to juggle.

Eboni: 00:12:10

Gosh, cell phones. Super duper hard, super duper complicated. I think short of, like, figuring out a way to, like, mirror cell phones and, like, you know, stalk everything they do, you know, that's very. It's very difficult.

And then there's the part, you know, the millennial parents were just like, man, I'm so glad that, like, we didn't have to worry about this mess in middle school and high school, you know, we got Nokia phones like later on in high school and we used them for calling. I don't know if you were part of like the pager gang in middle school. So there was a brief time of pagers in middle school. So like again we felt connected. But it wasn't a, the intense ball and chain that smartphones are right now and the social media.

So like, you know, the kids don't really, you know, they don't like, they don't have social media. But the latest thing at least what I've noticed for you know, these younger kids is like YouTube shorts, which is basically TikTok, which is basically reels. Like, I mean, you know, it's all that same kind of like short form content and they're doomscrolling just as much as we are. I mean, sure. Are their algorithms a little different? Sure, but that's hard.

And the concept of not having full oversight of that because they're between two houses is really hard because then we don't know. phones are listening, like who knows what they're hearing like in school or at, you know, whatever. And so then again their algorithms are changing and they're just like, you know, mindlessly scrolling and watching. And I'm just like, oh.

And then the newest challenge, at least for the bigs as we call them, the 13 and almost 15 year old, is the no cell phone policy at school. That's complicated.

And I mean I see multiple sides to the argument because of course we're in a hellscape where we have to worry about school shootings and bombings and all of these things. But also at the same time, you know, these attention, taking away devices is probably a good idea so that, you know, maybe these kids can focus.

Recently the big one, he was caught with not one but two cell phones in class and like one of them was his friends. And it's just like what's, what's happening? Like what, what, what are you doing?

I hate to feel like we're our parents like "these whippersnappers, their blasted phones!" And I mean, you know, that is kind of what it is where it's just like we did not have these problems. And so we are, I am, you know, kind of judging them but trying not to judge them on how different their problems are.

And so I would say that and the big kids having like a social life, that's also something that again we had as kids also, you know, sleepovers and fun and all of that. But I guess it's Hard for me because it's like, I have an adult life, too.

And now you want your friend to come over, and so now we have to, like, make sure there's a space for them to sleep.

And now we have to make sure that, you know, they can eat whatever we're eating or same other thing where it's like, okay, well, you know, Liam, you want to go to your friend's house to watch basketball and football and, you know, whatever it is, whatever. All the sports ball. He likes every sports ball. It's just like, okay, but.

Oh, but you need to go to your friend's godfather's house, and it's out in East Bumble. And then, you know, we have to coordinate with, like, your mother to pick you up or us to pick you up.

And, you know, so it's just, like, additional labor that I wasn't expecting. So I think that's hard between, you know, wondering what the. What the phones are showing them and juggling their. Their schedules.

Luckily, it seems like when it comes to sports, Maddie has volleyball this fall, Liam's thinking about basketball or track in the winter, and Sean usually does, like, a spring or summer baseball, and Liam does lacrosse in the spring, so it's not too conflicty. I remember when they were younger, Maddie did cheerleading when Liam did football. And so then it was like cheer meets, which is hell on earth. Sorry, cheer moms. But the screaming, the bows, the. Yeah, so I am. I am blessedly no longer a cheer mom.

But having to deal with that on top of football, and then the younger the children are, the earlier the football games are. So it was just a different flavor of hell on earth. So, like, again, right? It's just like. It's all different. It's all hell. It's all hell, but it is just, you know, it's. It's different.

And again, like you said before, you know, I imagine, you know, at some point they'll be like, "ah, you know, remember those good old days?" And. And, you know, I think even now, I still like the way these. You know, the way these iPhones work, right? They like to show you, you know, your photo memories. And it's just like, oh, yeah, you know, remember when they just liked Barbies in Minecraft and like that. That's simple, right? You can always just buy Barbies. You can buy Minecraft things. But now it's getting harder when they're just like, we want makeup and Nike shoes.

And I was like, well, those are a little. A little harder to, you know, get at TJ Maxx Whereas, you know, Minecraft? Easy. Barbies? easy.

It's nice when they have, like, certain things that they're, like, into. But right now, again, for. For the big kids specifically, it's. They're having, you know, more refined taste and so having to try to adjust to that and then the expectation that it's like, okay, well, you know, these bigger things, you know, cost bigger amounts of money. And so it's just like, well, happy birthday, here's a hoodie. Because it was $90 and there it is.

Emily: 00:18:12

It's insane how expensive everything is right now.

Eboni: 00:18:15

Ooph. I don't know. Sean's pretty easy still. You know, he likes crystals, he likes rocks, you know, he likes. He likes shiny things. He's, he's our resident crow. We can just get him some, like, geodes, you know. He's usually pretty happy with that.

Emily: 00:18:29

I'm curious about the cell phone stuff, just to go back to that, like, what is the thing you worry about the most with their phone usage?

Eboni: 00:18:35

It's really funny because, I mean, for all intents and purposes, back when chat rooms were a thing and we were on them and doing the things that was, I would say, wildly inappropriate, and we just. Yeah, yeah. Honestly, like, us or any one of our friends could have been Special Victims Unit all day long. The fact that we didn't and that we hadn't gotten trafficked or assaulted is really a miracle. I feel like that's not really an issue. And I feel like at least the bigger kids have gotten a little bit more of that kind of internet safety.

And I don't know if that's taught in schools or if they've just kind of figured out, hey, maybe, right, don't say where you live. And like, don't, you know, don't do these things.

Liam actually had to chide Sean the other weekend because the other scourge of existence, which is the game Roblox, don't do it, people. Anybody who's listening, don't do it. Like, delete the Roblox. It's terrible. It's a scourge on the planet. Sean was playing some Roblox game.

And again, it's one that. That's one of those things, right, where it's like, okay, I don't like Roblox in my house. But it's just like, well, you also do it at parents house. You do it at school or at the library. So it's just like, well, I mean, I guess we're paying attention or we're trying to pay attention if these things are, you know, happening in our house. And so Liam was like, "oh, are these your friends that you're playing with?" He's like, "no, these are just random people." And Liam's like, "please stop." You know, you. "You are nine years old. Do not play with strangers."

Because then again, if they ask questions and you're just not thinking anything of it because you see that they're this little pixelated guy or whatever you think, you know, this pixelated guy is asking you how old you are and what you're doing. And so he's like, "no, you should stop that. Or you should, you know, play, like, an explorer mode or an open mode, where it's like, again, you, you are just with yourself and you're not playing with, like, these random strangers."

For me, it's more at least again, with. With the bigs, wondering what kind of videos they're taking in. I don't necessarily worry about Maddie too much. You know, she likes a lot of crafting and cooking and, again, makeup and all these things.

So, you know, she's probably just, you watching all these types of content creators with that kind of stuff. But, you know, Liam, he's inquisitive. He does have an interest, kind of like his dad, in, you know, kind of history, politics, social studies.

I think we all understand that those topics these days are messy at best. And all it takes is one badly placed Andrew Tate video for things to go off the rails. So I guess that's probably what I worry about.

But again, you know, Liam has got a pretty good head on his shoulders. I think that if he had any questions, he would ask. And so I'm glad that we have a relationship with him where, you know, I think he would ask. He's like, "why does this guy think this way?" Or, you know, "why are all these videos so prevalent?" I think. I think he would ask. And so that. That's pretty good.

Emily: 00:21:45

That's good that he's got a good head on his shoulders and everything. But it's scary how fast they could just be pushed right down a pipeline and their frontal lobes are not done developing. Like, it's hard to have critical thinking skills at that age.

Eboni: 00:21:56

I feel like mine barely is! And so then, you know, to have to worry about those kinds of things. And again, without, like, the filters or, like, we were not the ones to purchase the cell phones, and, you know, we did that on purpose because we didn't want to be. But then the kids want the phones enough and whatever, that their mothers made it work and they did that.

But, yeah, again, if it were up to us completely, like, you know, who knows if they would have them now, realistically.

Emily: 00:22:20

I've heard there's more and more AI slop on YouTube shorts too, so there's, like, all kinds of weird junk that could be ending up in their feed.

Eboni: 00:22:28

Mm. And so then, right, for the little one being nine. And so, again, he likes that kind of stuff too. You know, YouTube kids now. It is really, you know, alarming to me that he kind of fancies himself a little YouTuber.

And, like, when he does, like, his, like, pretend play, you know, he has his mom, like, set up a phone, and he's like, "make sure you like and subscribe!" And I'm like, "nobody is watching this my guy." But no, and, like, it's. It's so funny. I mean, he has his. Again, he, he did a little video where he, like, showed off his, like, crystals. And, you know, he's like, "oh, look at this one. It's so good." And, like, whatever.

My favorite thing is, he picked up this, like, geode, and he's like, "this one, like, takes away your emotions." And he's like, "I haven't cried in, like, six months." I was like, all right, "well, could you, like, bring that to me, please? Like, why are you not sharing the wealth?"

Emily: 00:23:24

That's hilarious.

Eboni: 00:23:26

Oh, my gosh.

Emily: 00:23:27

It is so interesting, like, how much being a content creator is a thing that kids want to do now. Like, one of my students now mentioned that he did sports edits on vine, and I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You're, like, 19?

Eboni: 00:23:40

Was vine even a thing?

Emily: 00:23:41

Yeah, he must have been 9 or 10 making sports edits on Vine. And I'm like, what? That freaking breaks my brain.

Eboni: 00:23:47

Oh, no, I don't like that. Don't like that at all.

Emily: 00:23:51

No, it's wild.

Eboni: 00:23:51

At this point of teaching, none of my students were alive before 9/11. And it's just one of those things to, like, always be in the back of my mind where it's just like, these kids have had to grow up with, like, extreme security measures, you know, but also they've had to grow up with being, you know, digital natives and, like, not even conceiving of the fact that typing class wasn't, like, a new cool thing that happened in, like, high school is that, you know, it's happening now. They're taking typing class now. It's what they do every day. That's hard.

Emily: 00:24:24

It's a lot.

Eboni: 00:24:25

Yeah.

Emily: 00:24:26

Just want to hear, before we take a quick break, about some of the really joyful, fun parts about being a mom these days.

Eboni: 00:24:32

Being able to still have fun with the kids. We still, I guess all of them kind of like to play video games, and so does my husband. So I know anytime that any of them get to connect with my husband during a video game, like, you know, that's really fun. Anytime that I can talk with Maddie about stuff and, you know, when her friends sleep over and, you know, they're, they're talking about their issues, you know, and the fact that apparently men are trash starting in middle school now, and talking about boundaries and, like, trying to have these conversations, trying to keep the conversation open for talking about, like, books and stuff. Because, you know, as a librarian, you're like, "yeah, you should read whatever you want." But then sometimes I'm just like, "oh, should you read that BookTok smut, 13 year old? Maybe not."

But, you know, we still get to do, you know, fun family things with them, and, you know, they actually do, like, hanging out with us. I'm sure you've heard of that saying or term like living room kids. So bedroom kids, they like to hang out in their bedroom and not engage. And we definitely have living room kids. They want to use, you know, they want to be where the big TV is. You know, even if they're not using the big tv, if they're reading or playing on the switch or using their cell phones or whatever it is, they're never, like, hiding in their rooms. We have to accept that as a privilege.

Even though it's, like, super overstimulating to hear Fortnite being played while also a YouTube short is being played while also some Disney TV show is on, and they're all just like, again, existing next to each other voluntarily. Yeah, right. And being together. But I'm just like, is nobody paying attention to? Am I the only one that wants earplugs here? And apparently I am.

Emily: 00:26:30

That's really funny. It's like a blessing and a curse. Like how happy and joyful that we're all together, but also, oh, God, it's a lot. It's too much.

Eboni: 00:26:36

Mm.

Emily: 00:26:37

I'm sure I'll have my own version of that someday soon. It's definitely over stimulating in this little era, but...

Well, let's take a quick break and we'll get into some more after that.

Eboni: 00:26:45

Awesome.

Emily: 00:27:55

So, Eboni, I know you've been on a journey for quite a while with infertility and IVF. I would love to hear a little more about what that experience has been like over the last several years.

Eboni: 00:28:03

Cliff Notes of it. Let's see,: 2022

. That when I got pregnant in: 2022

And so, you know, telling everybody and. And then, you know, it doesn't end well. Missed miscarriage. And so then I was like, oh, womp, womp. And then, so, you know, as the kids say, pretty major crash out. And then a few months later, rebound and get pregnant again. And so we're like, see, "got this easy peasy." And then it was a different kind of loss.

A blighted ovum, an, an embryonic pregnancy where, again, it's just one of those things. And they're just like, "hey, this is just, like, two strokes of bad luck."

And I was like, "I don't, I don't like that." And they're just like, "well, just. Just. Just keep trying. It's fine. You're, like, getting pregnant, so it's fine."

I was like, "is it???" that's: 2022

And so they're like, "hey, those losses, they gave you some pretty, like, heavy scar tissue, so let's do some surgery." And I was like, "okay." And so we did. And they're like, "oh, Nothing's happening." And I was like, "yeah, nothing's happening."

They're like, "well, how about IUIs?" you know, the, the scientific turkey baster, as I like to say. They're like, "all right, well, nothing's happening."

And then they're just like, "oh, well, the scar tissue grew back and so let's just keep like roto rootering that out." And I was like, "okay."

And so, you know, we're kind of just like going through this barrage of, you know, procedures and testing and surgeries and all this. The first time again, a lot of people when they're pregnant for the first time, nobody can tell them anything. They're just like, hey, this is easy. You get pregnant, you have a baby, and that's it. It was really, you know, hard to again, tell the kids. And of course they were much young, younger then, but Sean is just like, "where did the baby go?" And I was just like, "away?" He was probably 6 at the time, so like, that was hard. And, and then, you know, the bigger kids, they're just like, "well, it wasn't like really a baby, was it?" And I was like, "well, like, depends on who you ask."

And you know, we're in a state where that's a little bit, you know, more up for debate than in other states. So it was like. And so after IUI, I was like, "okay, let's, you know, let's just do IVF. I am very, very, very, very, very grateful for insurance coverage. Not everybody is that lucky. So many people go into debt, sell or break out their retirements and clean out their retirement accounts, clean out their savings accounts again for this chance to have a child. So the fact that we had it mostly covered by insurance has been great. Just kind of had to pay for like the woo woo accoutrements.

F, I think started last year,: 2024

So we had Princess band aids, Buccee's band aids, Disney bandaids, all kinds of fun band aids. I actually was on vacation and I just bought Jaws bandaids. So like, you know, we're just gonna have fun with it.

Emily: 00:32:45

Gotta do what you can to make it fun, right?

Eboni: 00:32:47

And, you know, bought, like, cute little ice packs and, like, you know, did all these things. First round of IVF was a doozy, but, you know, we got some embryos. It was great. And then got something to stick, and then it kind of went away. What they call a chemical pregnancy. So, like, you know, I'm over three here. Just like how the Chiefs started out this year, you know, in football. Terrible record.

But the thing is, is they're just like, "you know, statistically, at least with IVF, the more you do it, you know, the more chance you have a success." And so I was just like, "all right." So we just kept, you know, going for it.

So, I mean, long story short, 3 rounds of IVF, I actually have lost track of, like, the embryo transfers. And so I'm pretty sure we're, like, up to six now. Six transfers. And we're just trying to, you know, kind of wait and see.

You know, the kids have actually been pretty involved with the IVF process. They like to name the embryos, you know, name them after people in, you know, their little TV shows when we had, like, a big yield the first time.

You know, there's a show called the Loud Family, and so they all have, like, L names, so they named all the embryos that. And then one time, we got, like, four embryos. So Sean likes this Disney show called Ricky, Nicky, Dicky, and Dawn. And so that's what their names were. And so then by the third round, it was three. And so then I decided to just name them and go with the TV show children names. So then the last three were Ed. Ed and Eddie. Nice. And then the kids are at least the younger two, Maddie and Sean. They're like, "can we give you shots?" I was like, "do you want to?!" And they're like, "yeah." And I was like, I was like, "oh, all right."

Emily: 00:34:33

It's fun for the whole family!

Eboni: 00:34:35

Yeah. So I definitely, like, have pictures of, like, Sean just being like. He's just like, "yeah, I'm doing it!" And I was like, "yeah, you are." I was like, yeah. So this. Yeah. So, you know, the process is really, you know, for better or worse, been kind of a family affair here.

They're always, you know, kind of asking. They're like, hey, you know, it's like, "what's an embryo doing?" And I was like, "I don't know, man." Like, we're one thing at a time, one cycle at a time. And, you know, we show them pictures of, like, the embryos, and they're just like, "why does it look like snot?"

And I was like, "I don't know, we all looked like this" and they're just like, "what???" I was like, "yeah, it's a weird thing, right?" That like this is how we.

Emily: 00:35:12

Science is crazy.

Eboni: 00:35:12

Science is super crazy. And so we're still kind of waiting to see like, you know, when is the right time to tell them about a pregnancy. Because especially like with like history of loss and like that wonderful, like ptsd, it's just like the reality is that there is no safe zone and that people have losses all the time. All trimesters, all things, all things.

That sometimes they're freak accidents, sometimes they're genetics, sometimes they're, you know, it's just, it's all these different things. But at least with them being older now theory we could, you know, explain things better.

And being like, okay, this is a genetic thing or this is a freak accident or you know, that whenever we do say like, hey, we're pregnant, that we'll say that it's just like, hey, there are no guarantees. But this is, this is promising, this is good. And the thing about IVF is that it is one big, very expensive science project.

The first round they're like, "let's try these meds." And they're like, "okay, worked pretty good, let's do it again." And then the second time it didn't work as well and so they're like "oh, that's weird."

So it's like third. So then the third time they're just like, "alright, well like we'll try this and we'll like bump up this med and add this med and do this."

And I was like, "all right." And so, you know, that seems to at least quality wise and everything been like the best round yet.

So it's just like, okay, you know, and then there's still just the regular everyday pregnancy variables. So it's just like, yeah, you know, you just kind of have to live openhandedly and you're just like, yeah, whatever is happening is happening, we're just gonna go with it and hope for the best. It's been overall, I would say a little over three years overall of like, you know, this, this journey.

Emily: 00:36:55

On like an emotional level, I'm sure there's some sadness and grief of course with the losses, but is there some anger too? It sounds like some of the medical people were so dismissive or not the most helpful or like 100%.

Eboni: 00:37:07

The first time is, you know, truly what kind of like radicalized me because I'm like, hey, is this like, when I had my first ultrasound? They were like, "oh, you know, this looks like you're a little early," but they're like, "this is your first pregnancy. You know, it could be off." And then the. The ultrasound check is like, "yeah, you know, you're either earlier, it's a miscarriage." And I was like, "excuse me?!?"

Emily: 00:37:27

Oh, my God.

Eboni: 00:37:28

I, like, reported her and I, like, did like, a very strongly worded survey. I was just like, "she is the worst." And.

Emily: 00:37:35

And how can you say that to someone so flippantly?! That's awful.

Eboni: 00:37:39

I was just like. And like, you know, again, again. Not a doctor, not. I mean, again, would it have been acceptable if it was a do? No, but like, I was just like, wow.

And then things when, like, things like, you know, bleeding happen, they're like, "oh, is it like, are you dying bleeding?" And I was like, "no." They're like, "oh, it's fine." I was like, "is it???" So, yeah, the dismissiveness, the gaslighting, like, it was a very, like, real thing. But then. And, but that's the reality of it is that when it comes to first pregnancies, kind of specifically, they're just like, like, it's the very first science project. So they're just like, we've just gotta let it roll and we've got to see what happens.

And so that's why, like, so many people, like, when they go in for like, their first scan at like eight or 10 weeks, most of the time they see a baby, they're like, hey, great, it's doing what it's supposed to do. But then sometimes it's not. Then they're just like, "oh, well, that happens."

And then, like, for somebody who's never experienced it, they're like, they're like, "what do you mean this happens?" And they're just like, "yeah, it happens." And that's the hard part with, like, the medical field because they see this a thousand times over.

ike, whatever. So, yeah, that: 2022

I really did resent the children. I did, I did. And, you know, I'm not proud of it, but it was like, "these are the embryos that lived?! These ones, these ones that get on my nerves?"

I was like, and "why not my child, my biological child!?" I guess that's where I felt like I embodied the evil stepmother. Right. Like, all I needed was like, a hairless cat. Which is still very much on my bucket list, by the way.

Emily: 00:39:27

You gotta perfect your evil cackle too.

Eboni: 00:39:29

Yeah, yeah. Be better at, like, you know, forcing them to do things. I can't even, like, get them to, like, put their clothes away. So the mopping and scrubbing on their hands and knees, you know, hasn't quite happened yet. That first, I would say, after those kind of back to back losses, it was just like, again, "who am I? What is this? Like, why does my body suck?"

And like, it was hard to be because, like, you know, my husband was like, well, he's like, "I don't know why this is happening." He's like, "I have three kids." Like, he's like, I seems. "It seems like my stuff works." And I was just like, "yeah..."

Emily: 00:40:01

did you throttle him?

Eboni: 00:40:04

There was also, like, a nervous breakdown in Wegmans. Shout out to, like, the random worker who saw me like, sobbing in Wegmans one day and was like, "here's a tissue."

I was like, "oh, my God, thank you so much. Like, you don't even know why I'm crying. But, like, I. I appreciate that. Thank you so much." That first year.

And then, of course, I think anybody who has experienced this can relate, like, you know, anniversaries. So anniversaries of when you found out you were pregnant, anniversaries when you had, you know, surgeries or anniversaries when they were supposed to be due dates. You know, like, that's hard. And, you know, even though Dr. Bessel van der Kolk is, you know, a problematic king, the body keeps the score.

And there are, you know, March is, you know, March is when I would have been due with my first baby. And sometimes I don't even think about it. And then, like, in March, I just, like, feel like garbage. And so it's just like, oh, right.

Because the body remembered that, like, this was supposed to be a thing that was happening. And like, and then it didn't. And so that's hard. But, you know, again, through medication and therapy and all the things, you know, it's, you get to a point where it's like, okay. The internet is dark and full of terrors, but it is also full of support groups and people who get it.

I've done ornament exchanges or mug exchanges with, you know, people who have experienced loss and so, like, understanding, like, their stories and seeing that, like, this is completely common and that it all sucks. Whether it's like a chemical pregnancy where you're like, you thought for, like, a second, and then it didn't. Or whether it's a first trimester, second trimester, third trimester.

There's folks luckily on, like, loss bingo, like, I haven't had, like, an ectopic pregnancy or, like, a molar pregnancy where, like, you can find out at that time that, like, you have cancer. And so, you know, somebody I met through one of the exchanges had that. So, like, not only did she, like, lose her child, she had to get treatment for cancer. And it's just, like, what I also kind of call, like, the Pain Olympics, right?

Like, we're all going to these forums, and we're just trying to be like, "this is all not okay," and everybody has, like, a version of not okay. And, like, you know, sometimes I feel like I want to, you know, grade these things.

It's like, oh, well, you know, again, the person with cancer, that's, like a. That's a gold medal in the Pain Olympics. And bravo, right? It's just, like, 10s across the board. That super sucks. And you win, Right? Right?

It's like, right? And they, like, stand. They're like, "yes, yes, I have the most trauma." And, like, that's terrible. Right? A lot of people say it's like, it's the worst club with the best members, and it's really true.

And again, some people make it out of the trenches, like, with a living baby and doing these things, but then ultimately, that trauma also, like, doesn't leave you. So, like, that's kind of like, the bummer for me, where it's just like, oh, okay, so I can get pregnant and have a baby, but then also be holding my breath the entire time or, you know, being convinced that, like, you know, this is when I get the cancer diagnosis or, like, just being, you know, really hard, right?

Just, like, you know, wondering, like, if and when, you know, the other shoe will drop and so trying to balance because everyone's like, at least, you know, you can get pregnant. And, like, you know, just. Just think positive. Or, you know, once you make it to 12 weeks, you're out of the woods, and it's, like, off, right?

It's just like, no, no, no, and no. You know, sure. Statistically, you know, of course, you know, I. I am nothing but, like, a person who loves information.

So there's, like, a website where you can, like, put in your age and all of these things, and it'll tell you, like, the percentage of miscarriage at, like, the particular time in which you're pregnant. For me, being of advanced maternal age, as they call it now. The percentages of miscarriage are, you know, basically. I mean, they are never zero. But with the age and, you know, all these other things in, you know, the, the back of my pocket, people are like, "yeah, you're in the clear at like 12 weeks."

And I was just like, "I don't know, Like, I think this website says, you know, that it's down to like 3%," which again, is fairly good, all things considered. But when you've been on the wrong side of statistics the entire time, it's. And so.

But then it's hard, right, because then you're like, oh, I've been on the wrong side of statistics for this whole time, so now's my chance. Yes, now is the time. But then, you know, you thought that the last time and then you got played, and so you're just like, okay, well, just. Yeah, so, I mean, it's truly one day at a time.

You know, I still talk to a lot of, you know, people that I've had, like, you know, again, these, like, little, like, gift exchanges or like, ornament exchanges where we give out ornaments, like, related to, like, our pregnancy losses or, you know, or child loss. Sometimes, you know, these are like, full term losses or like, you know, who, you know, all of these people that you meet.

It's been like a hard journey. You know, there's, of course, content creators who are, you know, showing you everything, all the shots, all the tests and the things. And those are various levels of helpful. And then, you know, it's. It's almost like, you know, we all have our own, like, personal soap operas. It's like, is it going to work for her? And you're like, "it worked for her!" And then it's like, "oh, it didn't work out for her. Oh..."

And then, like, you have to, you know, you're watching this, you know, basically live and this person is, you know, documenting it all. And that's a lot.

Emily: 00:45:28

It amazes me when people do that. And I, like, try not to judge. It's their life and it's their choice or it's helpful to people. But, like, I. I don't think I could do that. It's just brutal.

You were talking about some of the things people have said to you. Can you, like, expand on some of the worst advice or comments you've gotten during the process?

Eboni: 00:45:45

I'm gonna go ahead and say that "at

Eboni: 00:45:47

least you can get pregnant" is probably the worst. And I'm gonna, you know, go ahead and say, along with doing away with Roblox, in your home to also just never, never, never, never say that to someone. Doctors say it, too. And, like, through their scientific, you know, little brains, that is helpful because more information is better than no information.

So for the folks who, like, do not get pregnant and, like, they do not have implantation, you know, that's obviously a sign that they have to do other tests or they have to try and, like, figure out that part first, you know, because ultimately, like, that. That's step, like, two.

You know, step one is sperm meeting egg, you know, and then the second part is, you know, implanting some people, when it goes to IVF, sometimes sperm meeting egg is hard, and that doesn't even work. And so, again, that makes me violently ill to think that people are spending tens of thousands of dollars and they, they cannot get past step one. They, they cannot get an embryo. And it just makes me so sick that it costs so much money to have that level of disappointment. They get the silver, right, in, in the Pain Olympics. The fact that you can, you know, somebody can get implantation. Yes. Is that promising? Yes.

Is it helpful in the moment when someone is, like, suffering a loss? No, for sure, not helpful at all. That's probably one of them. Oh, another one. "At least it was early." Ooh, that's, that's another one that it's just like. Doesn't really matter if it was a chemical pregnancy where, again, you see a line on a test and you're just like, "wow, that's happening."

And then, you know, a period starts, like, three days later, and then you're just like, "oh, guess it's not happening." Because, again, something was happening. There was something enough to, like, trigger that test. And so the fact that something was happening and then it immediately stopped is still a bad feeling. And at least it was early is just, like, the least, one of the least helpful things, because it's like, oh, so again, right, you get more shots at gold at the Pan Olympics if it was later? And like, is that better? It's. It's. It's not.

Emily: 00:48:06

Didn't you get some terrible dietary advice, too?

Eboni: 00:48:09

Oh, sure, sure. Some of the clinics, you know, I have used a couple clinics, and one of them is just like, "hey, you have got to eat a carnivore diet. That is how you get pregnant. Plants are poison, and if you eat plants, you will have a miscarriage again."

And luckily, that was said to me over the phone because I probably would have caught a murder charge. So I just had to, I just had to, you know, breathe in, you know, not throw my phone and just be like, "all right." like, again, that's what this, this provider thinks. And there are people who eat vegetables who have babies all the time! There are people who use drugs and alcohol and have babies all the time, and, you know, everything in between. And so it really is just like, pregnancy, and all of that is really the Yahtzee game from hell, and that's really all it can be.

Or like, "oh, have you tried keto?" Or, like, again, people with, like, they're. They're just like, well, this worked for me. Or it's. Oh, this is another one. So, so I guess I've got top three, right? At least it was early. At least, you know, you can get pregnant. And then "if you stop trying, that's when it'll happen."

Emily: 00:49:26

Just relax!

Eboni: 00:49:27

Just relax. Don't stress about it. If you just. Or if you. Again, this, like, specifically, "if you stop thinking about it or if you stop trying, that's when it'll happen." And I'm just like, "ma'am, sir" whoever I'm talking to, I, you know, we're at the point of IVF, Like, I mean, short of having an embryology lab in my house, like, there's. There's no way to.

Eboni: 00:49:52

How am I gonna go about doing that, right?

Eboni: 00:49:53

Like, I cannot relax there. There is no relaxing.

Emily: 00:49:58

Just let the embryo walk up in on its own and implant itself!

Eboni: 00:50:03

Right. Do the medications and, like, right. If I had an entire clinic in my house, I suppose, you know what, maybe I could relax because, you know, somebody would just be giving me the shots. I just, you know, hang out on the couch, get some scans.

Like, sure, I would love for this to be more relaxing than it is, but ultimately, like, that's not going to help us get any closer to a baby. So you didn't ask what I'm going to tell you anyway.

It's just like, okay, well, if those are the things that you do not say to people, then, you know, how about some things that, like, you can say to people, right? If somebody tells you that they've had, like, a miscarriage, which is really interesting, because for the most part.

And I think, you know, when you had Pauly on the show, too, he had said this, too, where it's like, once you say something, you're like, "hey, I've had a miscarriage." Everybody comes out of the woodwork, they're like, "yeah, me too." And I was like, when? Like what? Like what? And then you're just like, "wait a minute."

You're like, "almost everyone I know has had one." And you're just like, nobody is needing to, like, air out their dirty laundry. Right. Like, I get it, but, like, these people who are like, you know, your friends, like, I. I don't. Again. Right. Is there a good way to go about this just being, like, you know. Right. Is there, like, a symbol or an emoji? Be like, you know, yes, you know, this has happened to me. There's. There's no good way to. To, you know, really go about this.

But, you know, once you kind of offer the information, it's like, people know you're in fight club, and so now they can talk about fight club. That was really great and hard. Right? Because you're like, "wow, I'm not alone."

But also, at the same time, it's just like, "I'm not alone, but, like, I guess all of you were." And that's. That's. That's hard.

Emily: 00:51:40

I appreciate that you've been so open about it online. Not that you, like, share about it constantly, but I think it helps for people to know and that it's normal and it fucking sucks, but, like, it's part of life for a lot of people.

Eboni: 00:51:51

Yeah. And, like, you know, whenever I do, like, announce a pregnancy or something, I'm just gonna be like, "listen, like, I am putting this out there, but again, with the kind of asterisk and caveat that we have no idea if this is, like, actually going to work." So, like, again, statistically, it seems like, like, it's fine, but you just never know.

So I'm just putting it out there, and we're gonna see what happens. Things you can say to people where you're just like, :I'm sorry. And that's really hard."

And then you know this from, like, having a child, like, "oh, let me know if you need anything." And it's just like, "okay, well, I need everything. I need a drink and a smoke and a back rub and, you know, Kleenex. I need all of these things" But without having the bandwidth to say that if there are things that, you know, people can offer, just being like, if you just want to, like, sit here, or if you just want to hang out, or if you want to sit and do nothing, or if you want to eat potato chips on the couch, you know, I, you know, just kind of make yourself available for, you know, helping this person, you know, however they want to be helped.

If it's, you know, going to the gym or, again, sitting on the couch, eating potato chips, like, just kind of being available for, you know, whatever, you know, that person kind of needs and really just kind of validating them being like again, whether it was a 3 week loss, a 6 week loss, a 9 week loss, whatever, 23 week loss, that every feeling is valid. And I have people still doing that for me now where it's like, you know, it's okay to be excited when something like starts. It's okay to be scared, it's okay to be mad. Like any feeling really is valid. And the good news and the bad news, right, is that feelings don't last forever.

And so to just kind of of go with them whenever they as they happen.

Emily: 00:53:38

That's a great way to look at it. I feel like our society wants to make things better for people and just like fix it. So that's why we say those dismissive things. But it's so, so unhelpful. And I appreciate that you're reminding us all to, yeah, feel the feelings as they come and then they'll pass eventually too.

Eboni: 00:53:53

because like again, right when, like when you have a baby, people like, "oh my God, let me help you, let me like take this baby." And it's all like, after all of this, all you want to do is sit with a baby. You do not want to fold laundry, you do not want to do dishes. You do not like. But they're just like, "let me hold this baby for you."

Emily: 00:54:10

Didn't ask for that.

Eboni: 00:54:12

Right? It's just like "no! doordash." and like, you know, "crockpot. homemade meal. anything!"

Emily: 00:54:22

So it's been a really hard path. What is it about being a mom to your own bio kids that's like so exciting and that keeps you going when it's been so hard?

Eboni: 00:54:30

Well, one of the things is that I would like an opportunity to co-parent with somebody in the same house at all times. And that is no fault of my step kids or anything like that. But it's just like being able to be on the same page with parenting with somebody again in the same house.

They, you know, the child doesn't have to go away to somebody else's house and learn and do God knows what, that we have a simple playing ground, you know, where we're both there, we're both aware of what the kid is doing. There have been times when Liam, the big kid has said, you know, "what would it be like if I like lived with you full time?"

And I was just like, well, I mean, "honestly I don't know if you would want that because me personally, like, I'm going to be up your ass about schoolwork and I don't know if you want me to be all the way in your ass, but like, that's where I'm going to be." Because we value education. Like, do you need to get straight A's? Absolutely not.

In this day and age with the attention span, thanks to YouTube shorts and all of these things, like, you know, can we expect perfect excellence? No.

But like I tell my college students, C's get degrees and so it's just like, hey, if we can just like be on you where like we know that you are doing work and you are trying, like, like that is fine. And that, you know, you would have to like, it's not like weekends at dad's house. Like, it would be chores and contributing and, you know, doing all of these things. So that's something to think about again, if that's something that you want.

Because I feel like sometimes inherently kids might pit one parent against the other and it's easy to do when they aren't communicating every day or communicating at all sometimes. That's kind of one of my primary things.

The secondary thing is completely vain. And I think the world deserves one really ridiculously good looking baby. And you know, I feel like I owe it to society to have like a little Zoolander baby that is

Emily: 00:56:40

Doing your part to make the world a better place!

Eboni: 00:56:41

Right? Because brains are weird. I'm like, "oh no, what if like the genetics lottery goes wrong and like all the recessive genes just come out and it's like a seven foot tall ginger with an afro" and like, which is like completely irrational and silly. You know, there is something at least for me to have a kind of familial connection.

And I don't know if that's because I don't have any living family with that, you know, connectivity to me anymore. Both of my parents are gone. I have two older half brothers. Besides the wanting to co-parent in the same house, wanting a ridiculously good looking baby and wanting to have a currently living familial connection, I think that's kind of what it is for me.

Emily: 00:57:27

Well, I'll be crossing all my fingers and toes for you, Eboni, that you have your ridiculously good looking baby that you'll raise to be an awesome human someday soon.

Eboni: 00:57:36

Thank you.

Emily: 00:57:37

Thank you for coming on the show. This was really fun. I'm glad we got to talk.

Eboni: 00:57:40

Yeah, me too.

Narrator: 00:57:44

This has been a presentation of the Lunchador Podcast Network.

Chris: 00:57:54

These kids these days, these kids don't even know about Mavis Beacon.

These kids don't even know about Word Munchers. Carmen Sandiego has been lost for so long because these kids don't even know about strong women with fedoras.